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> History Thread, The contributions of man
WALOR
post Oct 23 2018, 03:45 AM
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QUOTE (vsberlina @ Oct 22 2018, 11:12 PM) *
Its passes through the human intestinal tract, then the anus. Then it gets recycled?


Reminds me of a joke:

Difference between a rectal thermometer and a regular thermometer?
- the taste


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WALOR
post Oct 23 2018, 03:46 AM
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QUOTE (RAPID @ Oct 21 2018, 05:54 PM) *
Russians invented...


Oh, next time.


Paging Mr. Kalashnikov...


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BRFC
post Oct 23 2018, 08:56 AM
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QUOTE (PTC @ Oct 22 2018, 10:43 PM) *
VSB won't like this.

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vsberlina
post Oct 23 2018, 10:03 AM
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QUOTE (Ice66 @ Oct 22 2018, 01:33 PM) *
oh come on, your ignorance is at a different level. please read up over here.

tofu vs beef shouldn't even a conversation we should be having. beef is not a substitute for tofu. tofu can be eaten as a cold appetizer or combined with veg or meat. perhaps you can compare it with some forms of cheese like halloumi or mozzarella when combined with salad. it is NOT a stomach filler.

Now that I've read your pro-tofu propaganda, you can read some anti-tofu propaganda. biggrin.gif

In ancient China, I can understand why they ate tofu or drank soy, but they are foul tasting and today, we have pasteurised milk and lots of great cheeses. There's no need to eat tofu or drink soy.

As for beef, I don't eat much beef. The fat is embedded in the meat so you have an unwanted bi-product with high cholesterol levels. There's much better meats, with less fat and cholesterol. Fish (salmon), chicken breast, pork (fat is on the outside so can be easily removed), goat.

Duck is a Chinese staple and as good as chicken (providing you don't eat the fatty skin).


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vsberlina
post Oct 23 2018, 10:05 AM
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QUOTE (BRFC @ Oct 23 2018, 04:19 AM) *
Coincidentally, just had one of my best dishes of the year @Conservatorium Hotel in Amsterdam for work: tofu. I swear I didn't plan this or am making anything up. biggrin.gif



QUOTE (PTC @ Oct 23 2018, 07:43 AM) *
VSB won't like this.

The Dutch let the Nazis roll on through without firing a bullet. They don't have my respect.

Who goes to the Conservatorium for tofu? What happened to the lobster? I'd be having lobster. They saw you coming.


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vsberlina
post Oct 23 2018, 10:19 AM
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QUOTE (scoobyliscious @ Oct 23 2018, 10:48 AM) *
According to the font of all human knowledge, it's fermented tofu.

And we know that fermentation, in lots of different forms ("craft" beer, kombucha, kimchi, pickling various things) is bee eye gee, BIG, in the food world these days.

Me? I actually like the original stuff, but, for me, it is more of a palette for flavor (see: sofritas from Chipotle, not that it's very Latin, but it IS tasty and tofu-based) than a mainstay flavor in-and-of-itself. And, despite the aforementioned 'Potle, I use it in conjunction with a main protein (meat-ey something) rather than as a substitute.

As for the "why," because it is, nutritionally, similar to a protein (more protein-per-calorie than beef), but at a much lower overall cost to acquire. Meat means you have to grow food to feed the meat animals, keep the meat animals (including "away from predators") and give them time to grow to a size. It's not a very "efficient" method of using biological energy. Tofu, which is soy, is quicker-to-market at a lower cost-per-energy for you, the consumer. You know, like most (maybe all?) vegetables. I am by no means a vegetarian (or sympathizer: we evolved canine teeth from our evolutionary predecessors; and they serve just the one purpose: to rip flesh asunder), but the Western diet has become far too accustomed to daily meat, when it should be celebrated as a treat and we should use more of the "whole animal" (mmm, homemade broths - and don't get me started on the joys of marrow). Or, maybe that's just my natural left-ey peaking out from the recesses of my brain.

But hey. You don't have to like everything (for example, I could do without the U.S.-staple "button" mushrooms, which have a terrible slimy texture, or the similarly textured okra) you eat; as long as you try it first (my general rule is: stuff your face first, ask what was served later - it keeps your ill-trained "ewww that's gross" portion of your brain from ruining your enjoyment of, say, 100-year eggs or grasshopper puree). You tried; you didn't like. Move on (and try to do so without a serving of hater-ade for the ingredient along the way).

I like marrow. smile.gif

This discussion started as 'contributions to modern society by cultures'. Ice said the Chinese gave us tofu. I'm saying they can take it back. laugh.gif

The Greeks gave the phalanx, the olympics, medicine, math, arts, democracy and so much more that is used today.

But tofu seems to 'trump' (according to xabirocks) all of those. laugh.gif


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BRFC
post Oct 23 2018, 01:40 PM
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QUOTE (vsberlina @ Oct 23 2018, 12:05 PM) *
The Dutch let the Nazis roll on through without firing a bullet. They don't have my respect.

Who goes to the Conservatorium for tofu? What happened to the lobster? I'd be having lobster. They saw you coming.

biggrin.gif Another subject to educate yourself on. You're compiling quite the list for yourself. Ignoramus is Greek too, I suppose?
They held the Germans back actually, for a couple of days. Then the Luftwaffe bombed Rotterdam and threatened to do the same to Utrecht.

Random Wiki:

QUOTE
The Wehrmacht finally attacked the Netherlands in the early hours of 10 May 1940. The attack started with the Luftwaffe crossing through Dutch airspace, giving the impression that Britain was the ultimate target. Instead, the aircraft turned around over the North Sea and returned to attack from the west, dropping paratroopers at Valkenburg and Ockenburg airfields, near the Dutch seat of government and the Royal Palace in The Hague, starting the Battle for the Hague. While Germany had planned to take over swiftly using this tactic, the Dutch halted the advance at the core region of Fortress Holland, slowing down the German invasion.


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xabirocks
post Oct 23 2018, 02:07 PM
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QUOTE (vsberlina @ Oct 23 2018, 03:49 PM) *
But tofu seems to 'trump' (according to xabirocks) all of those. laugh.gif


I never said I liked tofu. (I don't mind it though) The truth didn't stop trump, I don't expect it to matter to you.
You trumpet on.



Stinky tofu.. now that was one step too far for me. Never again. I tried it, gave it a fair go, didn't like it. My chinese mates said it wasn't the best preparation, in truth, I don't think I'll like any version of stinky tofu. The one I had was plain stinky tofu - and it tasted (taste is dominated by the smell) like crap, no metaphor intended.

I like to believe I have a fairly open mind when it comes to trying to new cuisines. My friend actually retched and almost threw up after simply smelling stinky tofu. I guess it's an acquired taste and is extremely polarizing. Much like durian.
You have to understand, that one, I am a vegetarian, and two, I am Indian, so the taste for me is very very different. But I really liked the asian spices when I tried them.

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PTC
post Oct 23 2018, 03:52 PM
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QUOTE (xabirocks @ Oct 23 2018, 10:07 AM) *
My friend actually retched and almost threw up after simply smelling stinky tofu.

That would be me.

I'm always open to trying new cuisine, but if I don't like the look of it, and/or I don't like the smell of it...it ain't going in my mouth. biggrin.gif


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post Oct 23 2018, 05:55 PM
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QUOTE (PTC @ Oct 23 2018, 04:52 PM) *
That would be me.

I'm always open to trying new cuisine, but if I don't like the look of it, and/or I don't like the smell of it...it ain't going in my mouth. biggrin.gif

Funny thats what the missus always says


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scoobyliscious
post Oct 23 2018, 06:06 PM
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QUOTE (BRFC @ Oct 23 2018, 09:40 AM) *
biggrin.gif Another subject to educate yourself on. You're compiling quite the list for yourself. Ignoramus is Greek to, I suppose?
They held the Germans back actually, for a couple of days. Then the Luftwaffe bombed Rotterdam and threatened to do the same to Utrecht.

Random Wiki:

Piling on ... Math has a long, storied and multi-cultural history. The Greeks focused mainly on geometry (hence, Pythagoras and his eponymous Theorem, a2 + b2 = c2 for right triangles), but the Indians (sub-continent) gave us Zero, which is powerfully at the heart of modern mathematics (especially when we extend the concept in Set Theory to the Null Set), the calculus and more. And that's before we get to Leibnitz, Descartes, Newton and the invention of The Calculus and Analytical Geometry. Some of which can be attributed to the Greek tradition (as preserved through the Middle Ages by our Muslim friends in the Middle East), but much of which is entirely new.

But sure, give the credit for the entire underpinnings to one group. Because that surely has to be the answer. It's not like counting or "more versus less" are common concepts throughout human history (or, for that matter, in the natural world, where recent evidence suggests a much broader swathe of the Animal Kingdom uses some form of counting or numerical relations in their daily lives).

Quick aside: yeah, almost missed the "art" in there. Because Lascaux and similar cave paintings (which may be Neanderthal in origin) are definitely Greek. Or, not art. Which is totally not universal across human history.

Finally, if this Topic is about "contributions to modern society by cultures" and we want to pick on the Chinese, can we discuss this whole Gunpowder thing?



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BRFC
post Oct 23 2018, 07:07 PM
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QUOTE (scoobyliscious @ Oct 23 2018, 08:06 PM) *
Piling on ... Math has a long, storied and multi-cultural history. The Greeks focused mainly on geometry (hence, Pythagoras and his eponymous Theorem, a2 + b2 = c2 for right triangles), but the Indians (sub-continent) gave us Zero, which is powerfully at the heart of modern mathematics (especially when we extend the concept in Set Theory to the Null Set), the calculus and more. And that's before we get to Leibnitz, Descartes, Newton and the invention of The Calculus and Analytical Geometry. Some of which can be attributed to the Greek tradition (as preserved through the Middle Ages by our Muslim friends in the Middle East), but much of which is entirely new.

But sure, give the credit for the entire underpinnings to one group. Because that surely has to be the answer. It's not like counting or "more versus less" are common concepts throughout human history (or, for that matter, in the natural world, where recent evidence suggests a much broader swathe of the Animal Kingdom uses some form of counting or numerical relations in their daily lives).

Quick aside: yeah, almost missed the "art" in there. Because Lascaux and similar cave paintings (which may be Neanderthal in origin) are definitely Greek. Or, not art. Which is totally not universal across human history.

Finally, if this Topic is about "contributions to modern society by cultures" and we want to pick on the Chinese, can we discuss this whole Gunpowder thing?


Interesting stuff on the Zero Scoobs. Nice one. yeah, especially the 'Art' claim is beyond ridiculous. But VSB is making some serious efforts here, so I can only respect that. It's just impossible to cede the points for him now, and I would be almost disappointed if he did biggrin.gif

Btw the Persians invented beer didn't they? Or was that wine? Either way, I have found the chosen people for myself and quite likely Netley tongue.gif

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scoobyliscious
post Oct 23 2018, 09:01 PM
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QUOTE (BRFC @ Oct 23 2018, 03:07 PM) *
Interesting stuff on the Zero Scoobs. Nice one. yeah, especially the 'Art' claim is beyond ridicoulous. But VSB is making some serious efforts here, so I can only respect that. It's just impossible to cede the points for him now, and I would be almost disappointed if he did biggrin.gif

Btw the Persians invented beer didn't they? Or was that wine? Either way, I have found the chosen people for myself and quite likely Netley tongue.gif

As I recall, the origins of beer are pretty disputed, but that's mostly because of a lack of hard (written, cuneiform or otherwise) evidence. Beer and "civilization" (air-quotes quite intentional) seem to appear at about the same time. Which really just indicates how soon after large-scale agriculture (one of the underpinnings of "civilization") beer appears.

And the whole wine thing is pretty disputed, as well. When I traveled Georgia (for my US-based brethren: the country ever-so-slightly north from the Fertile Crescent, not the state ever-so-slightly south from "civilization." Yeah, I said it. Damn Yanquis and all that), the prevailing story is that wine was first fermented in Georgia (where it is prepared in a not-too-dissimilar fashion from what we believe the Ancient Greeks did, i.e. mixed ingredients in a jar or amphora, then buried in the ground and left alone to complete fermentation). Supposedly the Latin "vino" was a bastardization of the Georgian "ghvino" (where the "gh" sound is a bit like an English H if it were spoken by the Yiddish cousin of The Simpsons' Willie the Groundskeeper, but is largely unpronounceable by non-native speakers). But, we all tell creation myths about our cultures that stretch the truth [hence, condemnation of the interactive work between slave and rum trades in the States is downplayed, because it stands in opposition to our self-created mythology as a bastion of Freedom (extreme Mel Gibson voice)], so I don't know how much credence to give the tale. Good story, though.

Back to beer ... I think the oldest recipe is from the Sumerian (so, Persian is really close, if a few centuries later). I'll admit: some day, I, too, would like to try and brew this stuff, just to see what it is like (apparently, more like hard cider than modern beer).

And now that we have completed our federally mandated allotment of "edutainment" ... What, you thought I would miss an opportunity to pile on VSB and/or PTC? If you have the kind of screen name that lends itself to 3-letter initials, I'll be there to (help) make fun of you. You big Greek hunk, you.

This post has been edited by scoobyliscious: Oct 23 2018, 09:02 PM


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JFG
post Oct 23 2018, 09:02 PM
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QUOTE (scoobyliscious @ Oct 23 2018, 07:06 PM) *
...this whole Gunpowder thing?



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scoobyliscious
post Oct 23 2018, 09:04 PM
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QUOTE (BRFC @ Oct 23 2018, 04:56 AM) *

Umm, is that two large slices of truffle in there? You have me at truffles. Especially in that quantity with even a modicum of skill in preparation.


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PTC
post Oct 23 2018, 11:04 PM
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QUOTE (scoobyliscious @ Oct 23 2018, 05:04 PM) *
Umm, is that two large slices of truffle in there? You have me at truffles. Especially in that quantity with even a modicum of skill in preparation.

I've been truffle hunting in the Istria region of Slovenia. One man, one dog, many hours, two little black truffles.

Lovely stuff.




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BRFC
post Oct 24 2018, 06:43 AM
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QUOTE (scoobyliscious @ Oct 23 2018, 11:04 PM) *
Umm, is that two large slices of truffle in there? You have me at truffles. Especially in that quantity with even a modicum of skill in preparation.

Spot on. Soy sauce, sesame seeds, turnip-cabbage, ginger... The home-made fresh tofy serves as the fat in streaky belly if you will. It's a perfect conveyer belt for the richt tastes and really ties the room dish together.

QUOTE (PTC @ Oct 24 2018, 01:04 AM) *
I've been truffle hunting in the Istria region of Slovenia. One man, one dog, many hours, two little black truffles.

Lovely stuff.

One to add to the list. That sounds like a super nice little trip to make. thumbsup.gif
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vsberlina
post Oct 24 2018, 01:45 PM
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QUOTE (BRFC @ Oct 24 2018, 12:40 AM) *
biggrin.gif Another subject to educate yourself on. You're compiling quite the list for yourself. Ignoramus is Greek too, I suppose?
They held the Germans back actually, for a couple of days. Then the Luftwaffe bombed Rotterdam and threatened to do the same to Utrecht.

Ignoramus was Roman. smile.gif

Couple of days? We lasted 6 months. 6 months gave the Russians time to get organised, and forced Hitler to reach Russia in Winter, not Summer. That gave Russians the advantage, as they were used to Winter and the Germans weren't.

Greek villages were razed to the ground. But that didn't stop the Greeks. We lost 1 million of our 8. 12.5% of our population. The most of any Allied nation. I don't remember Churchill or Hitler praising the Dutch. I think you need to read up on your history. But let me remind you of Churchill's words once again. 'Hence we will not say that Greeks fight like heroes, but that heroes fight like Greeks.'



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vsberlina
post Oct 24 2018, 01:50 PM
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QUOTE (xabirocks @ Oct 24 2018, 01:07 AM) *
I never said I liked tofu. (I don't mind it though) The truth didn't stop trump, I don't expect it to matter to you.
You trumpet on.



Stinky tofu.. now that was one step too far for me. Never again. I tried it, gave it a fair go, didn't like it. My chinese mates said it wasn't the best preparation, in truth, I don't think I'll like any version of stinky tofu. The one I had was plain stinky tofu - and it tasted (taste is dominated by the smell) like crap, no metaphor intended.

I like to believe I have a fairly open mind when it comes to trying to new cuisines. My friend actually retched and almost threw up after simply smelling stinky tofu. I guess it's an acquired taste and is extremely polarizing. Much like durian.
You have to understand, that one, I am a vegetarian, and two, I am Indian, so the taste for me is very very different. But I really liked the asian spices when I tried them.

Yes, preparation is everything. But the question is, "Why?" Why when there's so many other great foods that are smoked, wood oven, chargrilled, etc.

Durian is best dry. Like crisps. There's no other way to eat it, unless you eat faecal matter.

Laksa. Now there's a dish. Are the Indians claiming it, cos I'm giving it to the Malaysians.


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post Oct 24 2018, 01:50 PM
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QUOTE (PTC @ Oct 24 2018, 02:52 AM) *
That would be me.

I'm always open to trying new cuisine, but if I don't like the look of it, and/or I don't like the smell of it...it ain't going in my mouth. biggrin.gif

Fried crickets in Bangkok... with a beer. You get a beer.


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