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> Brexit, Vent Your Spleen!
tigerjames
post Yesterday, 04:55 PM
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QUOTE (Netley Lucas @ Jan 22 2019, 04:18 PM) *
This is why Corbyn is in trouble, he somehow has to balance the idealistic youth support & Membership from the metropolitan areas who demand a People's Vote (to Remain) and the millions of hardcore Northern Leavers who are by nature LAB but who will back someone like Farage as they will never vote Tory.

If May can get Legal concessions on the Backstop she could get all the Tory Brexiteers back, plus the DUP and leave The Grieves & Soubry's totally isolated. Their number isn't exactly small but if the whips put intolerable pressure on them, some will crack, maybe get a few more LAB rebels onside, might have a chance.



Its all a con job anyway......The powers that be didn't expect to lose the referendum …and they spent
a fortune on propaganda and still lost ohmy.gif .....Now "project fear" "Pets at Home" are stockpiling food laugh.gif laugh.gif
because they don't want the little doggies going hungry whistling.gif
That's reported by the BBC huh.gif , but riots for 8 weeks in France not rolleyes.gif.
When asked it was leave or stay......whats this bull crap deal business?....
that has been made up since the vote...


We need to leave(No deal)….otherwise the country will burn like France

This post has been edited by tigerjames: Yesterday, 04:59 PM


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Netley Lucas
post Yesterday, 04:59 PM
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Bear in mind this is just the Withdrawal bit of the leaving, got the Trade Deal to come! laugh.gif

I disagree slightly with TJ on No Deal being the best option but I certainly don't think it's the worst, or even 2nd worst.

If May can get the UK inc NI out of all the major EU biggies and get a decent trade deal with minimal or no mutual tariffs then that will be a good Brexit. If the EU won't budge on the Backstop then No Deal goes live and Gov must not waiver, mustn't blink, let the blockers do their worst, the Gov has Law on its side and if push comes to shove, can drive it through.

A lot of noise about a People's Vote, doesn't appear too popular in the polls though? Is it one of those things being peddled as Popular but only by some Remainers? Make the most noise and folk think it's a real thing? If LAB can only get 70 to sign for it then how the heck can it become a reality?

Let's assume it is a thing, for argument's sake, and another Referendum, a re-run is held on the grounds that people have changed their minds, the result was wrong, we all know so much more, Leave cheated, folk were stupid, the experts were right, Brexit is a disaster!

I'm not entirely sure, if that is the proposition, that the result will be any different next time around if it's going to be reasoned like that? TJ?
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Netley Lucas
post Yesterday, 05:12 PM
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QUOTE (tigerjames @ Jan 22 2019, 04:55 PM) *
Its all a con job anyway......The powers that be didn't expect to lose the referendum …and they spent
a fortune on propaganda and still lost ohmy.gif .....Now "project fear" "Pets at Home" are stockpiling food laugh.gif laugh.gif
because they don't want the little doggies going hungry whistling.gif
That's reported by the BBC huh.gif , but riots for 8 weeks in France not rolleyes.gif.
When asked it was leave or stay......whats this bull crap deal business?....
that has been made up since the vote...


We need to leave(No deal)….otherwise the country will burn like France


The UK economy, jobs, wages, all doing much better than the EU which is struggling with Germany approaching recession, France in some kind of late 70's early 80's industrial relations nightmare and dare I even look at Spain & Italy, see what's going on there? The rise of the Extreme Right all over Europe? When we have just a tiny bunch of nutters? laugh.gif

At this rate even a No Deal could begin to look good! laugh.gif
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Netley Lucas
post Yesterday, 05:33 PM
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As for the BBC? What exactly is £4b (or go to jail) paying for? Its most popular programmes are essential commercial entities , they are not distinctive from commercial alternatives. Even the News is not THAT much different from commercial rivals in the UK. Sky, C4 & ITV offer some good in-depth news programmes and LBC offers some really good radio news programmes that actually provide some real balance rather than the fake balance the beeb attempts to portray.

So what does the BBC really do that commercial rivals don't atm? Local news is a bit better, local Radio, some distinctive radio music programmes maybe. That doesn't cost £4b or go to jail? Even the Arts programmes can be found on Sky or C4 (owned by the UK Public but funded by ads) so even BBC2 or BBC4 aren't exactly distinctive.

TJ, after Brexit, fancy a Referendum on the future of the BBC? laugh.gif
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Netley Lucas
post Yesterday, 05:59 PM
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Ireland has not taken the EU's No Deal = Hard Border very well, not very well at all in fact! ohmy.gif

The Irish will NOT accept a Hard Border on the island of Ireland and will not plan for one, regardless of Brexit. This is the UK position too but it is not for EU to demand a No Deal Hard Border from the UK, it would become an EU/Irish issue and so the EU's United Front on Brexit has suddenly got a split in it, and quite a big one too. ohmy.gif
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tigerjames
post Yesterday, 06:37 PM
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QUOTE (Netley Lucas @ Jan 22 2019, 05:33 PM) *
TJ, after Brexit, fancy a Referendum on the future of the BBC? laugh.gif


State funded tax....always has been...look how much they PAY MP's

QUOTE (Netley Lucas @ Jan 22 2019, 05:59 PM) *
The Irish will NOT accept a Hard Border on the island of Ireland and will not plan for one,


No problem with no deal...that's what we voted for...
democracy is dead ….IF it ever really existed in GB

This post has been edited by tigerjames: Yesterday, 06:37 PM


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Netley Lucas
post Yesterday, 08:38 PM
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QUOTE (tigerjames @ Jan 22 2019, 06:37 PM) *
State funded tax....always has been...look how much they PAY MP's



No problem with no deal...that's what we voted for...
democracy is dead ….IF it ever really existed in GB


£4b of taxation to fund the broadcasting wing of The Guardian? laugh.gif Let's agree it must be Public Service ie not clashing commercially? No clash with commercial radio, I reckon it could live off £200m a year, local news, across all regions and a bit of specialist music. laugh.gif 95% smaller, funded by tax, I'll go for that, go tweet Gary Lineker, see what he says. biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by Netley Lucas: Yesterday, 08:40 PM
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Netley Lucas
post Yesterday, 09:17 PM
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The People's Vote are in a bit of muddle too atm;

“There is absolutely no way the Blairite faction can be allowed to run the campaign at a second referendum,” said one prominent pro-Remain campaigner for a public vote, adding: “We’d lose 70–30.” ohmy.gif

Worth a read https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/the-ca...t-has-descended
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tigerjames
post Yesterday, 10:09 PM
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QUOTE (Netley Lucas @ Jan 22 2019, 08:38 PM) *
go tweet Gary Lineker, see what he says. biggrin.gif

I'm sure he's very happy smile.gif

QUOTE (Netley Lucas @ Jan 22 2019, 09:17 PM) *
The People's Vote are in a bit of muddle too atm;

“There is absolutely no way the Blairite faction can be allowed to run the campaign at a second referendum,” said one prominent pro-Remain campaigner for a public vote, adding: “We’d lose 70–30.” ohmy.gif

Worth a read https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/the-ca...t-has-descended



He's one of the biggest "flats" of all time(that's a typo smile.gif)
Labour my asssssssss
BBC Radio 4 was unbiased tonight whistling.gif
The type of rhetoric they used for "leave means leave" guest compared
To the type they used for "peoples vote" guest!!
Talk about I love you questions compared to …your an evil mother laugh.gif

BBC...joins the German / French Army

Soon alot more Grannies Will be going to jail again because the Gestapo found them watching TV... freezing, hungry ,but without a licence to watch TV.. yes that happens here in the UK for all those
On this site from other countries!!!
You go to jail because we must pay state TV agree.gif

This post has been edited by tigerjames: Yesterday, 10:22 PM


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Netley Lucas
post Today, 02:16 AM
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QUOTE (tigerjames @ Jan 22 2019, 10:09 PM) *
I'm sure he's very happy smile.gif




He's one of the biggest "flats" of all time(that's a typo smile.gif)
Labour my asssssssss
BBC Radio 4 was unbiased tonight whistling.gif
The type of rhetoric they used for "leave means leave" guest compared
To the type they used for "peoples vote" guest!!
Talk about I love you questions compared to …your an evil mother laugh.gif

BBC...joins the German / French Army

Soon alot more Grannies Will be going to jail again because the Gestapo found them watching TV... freezing, hungry ,but without a licence to watch TV.. yes that happens here in the UK for all those
On this site from other countries!!!
You go to jail because we must pay state TV agree.gif


I still wonder how Remain, with all their advantages over Leave still somehow managed to Lose?

Was it The Bus? Farage? Cummings? Boris? Immigration? Did Remain simply underestimate Leave? Or were there some other factors at work? The Leave campaign was bedeviled by divisions, it wasn't a good campaign, it was pretty hopeless tbh yet it won? Remain seemed slicker, had the weight of the establishment behind it and so many experts lined-up you could be forgiven for thinking it was a 1 horse race!

Sometimes in campaigns there is a moment, when the clear favourite blows it - think back to 1992, Sheffield and Kinnock's triumphalist rally speech! Labour on the brink of victory, all he had to do was be sensible, he was stupid and lost the election.

Was this another Kinnock Moment? The Geldof Moment when Remain really lost the EU Referendum?

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Netley Lucas
post Today, 02:50 AM
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Meanwhile Varadkar doing his best to spin the EU Bombshell as a UK Problem by suggesting Bilateral Agreement and Full Customs Union to avoid a Hard Border (that he's just said will NEVER be allowed!) laugh.gif

Is he rattled, befuddled? The very reason the Deal failed was because the Backstop would in theory trap NI & UK into remaining in the EU by default so his suggestion is just the same, it's a No Deal Backstop as opposed to a Deal Backstop!

Laura Kunesburg says maybe there's a way of removing this issue completely from the Deal, to get it through, then look at this separately? Hardly going to please the DUP or Brexiteers because it is the current biggest obstacle so must be part of any deal or what's the point? laugh.gif

I'd hazard a guess, the closer we get to No Deal the more we'll suddenly hear of... technological border solutions. ohmy.gif
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Netley Lucas
post Today, 01:57 PM
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Some talk in Ireland of a No Deal Hard Border being placed, wait for it... in Calais & Rotterdam! ohmy.gif

This would appear to be a shift in thinking of both the EU & Ireland, maybe they are starting to believe a No Deal Brexit is a thing, a real thing that could happen.

What's the thinking then? Basically that Ireland can't be trusted to check NI/UK goods properly that will enter the Continental EU so must be checked at French & Dutch ports. It does avoid a Hard Irish Border but is going down like a cold cup of sick in Ireland. laugh.gif

Oh, and the Left are really sticking the boot into The People's Vote;

“Whatever the rights and wrongs of a second referendum, the official People’s Vote is an absolute disaster, has undermined the case for another vote, and if there is one and they run the Remain campaign, we might as well chalk up a second Leave victory now” Owen Jones

Bear in mind Jones is an advocate of a Corbyn-type Customs Union Brexit whereas many of his his colleagues at The Guardian like Polly Toynbee are People's Vote.

I think the more People see Tony Blair campaigning for a 2nd Referendum the less chance we'll get one, toxic. Might as well get Bob Geldof involved too, V-Signing Brexiteers! laugh.gif

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Netley Lucas
post Today, 02:21 PM
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So, is Brexit dead yet?

The divisions in the People's Vote and in Ireland/EU relations over the past couple of days have arguably emboldened Brexiteers. Their stock was tanking faster than a Greek Bond but I sense a bounce, it could be Dead Cat as the next challenge is Bercow & Grieve, The Blockers!

JRM & Co seem a bit more lively too, rowing-back a bit perhaps, maybe some compromise in the air. DUP a bit less pessimistic... maybe, just maybe, May may be onto something but she simply has to keep her main weapon, No Deal Brexit fully loaded, and any extension to Article 50 to a bare minimum or suddenly hope will vanish.
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tigerjames
post Today, 02:37 PM
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QUOTE (Netley Lucas @ Jan 23 2019, 02:16 AM) *
I still wonder how Remain, with all their advantages over Leave still somehow managed to Lose?
Was it The Bus? Farage? Cummings? Boris? Immigration? Did Remain simply underestimate Leave?
Or were there some other factors at work? The Leave campaign was bedeviled by divisions, it wasn't a good campaign,
it was pretty hopeless tbh yet it won?
Remain seemed slicker, had the weight of the establishment behind it
and so many experts lined-up you could be forgiven for thinking it was a 1 horse race!


It was a massive outside result.....your right agree.gif ... Remain spent a fortune on propaganda wheeling out rich celebrities
to influence the stupid uneducated working class.

Not counted in the expenses of remain campaign , but also spent a fortune for them were Unions angry.gif !
Spending members money.... Unions like Unison and Usdaw just to name two.
They spent a £millions sending out propaganda mail to every members house
week after week advising their members to vote Remain angry.gif .
If you vote leave your stupid and you don't want to be stupid do you?.
Shocking they spent members funds on this..

It really is amazing Remain lost ohmy.gif .....With the BBC telling you to vote Remain every day with their propaganda
.. Rich Celebrities/Labour/Conservatives/Unions/Project Fear telling you every day to vote Remain
I'm surprised the Lollipop ladies and lollipop men didn't have it painted on their lollipop sticks "Vote Remain"
and just one painted bus telling you to vote leave and guess what...that bus won laugh.gif


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