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Posted by: PTC Oct 20 2018, 03:05 PM

Meat beats tofu.

End of discussion.

Posted by: Ice66 Oct 20 2018, 03:11 PM

QUOTE (PTC @ Oct 20 2018, 03:05 PM) *
Meat beats tofu.

End of discussion.

LOL sure - this is completely out of context. laugh.gif

Posted by: vsberlina Oct 21 2018, 12:25 AM

QUOTE (PTC @ Oct 21 2018, 02:05 AM) *
Meat beats tofu.

End of discussion.

Never, ever, ever, have I vehemently agreed with PTC on anything. But this statement is the exception.
The world will surely end now, and when we go to the next world, there better not be tofu. It's not even a food, FFS. angry.gif

Posted by: vsberlina Oct 21 2018, 12:27 AM

QUOTE (Ice66 @ Oct 21 2018, 02:11 AM) *
LOL sure - this is completely out of context. laugh.gif

It was said. You now backtrack. PO will pin that statement, so we never forget, for all eternity. The rise of the tofu eaters must be quashed.

Posted by: Ice66 Oct 21 2018, 04:18 AM

QUOTE (vsberlina @ Oct 21 2018, 12:25 AM) *
It's not even a food, FFS. angry.gif

tell that to the Chinese, Indonesian, Japanese, Korean, Malaysian, Singaporean, Thai, Vietnamese, Filipino, etc and see how many of them agrees with you. rofl.gif

Posted by: PTC Oct 21 2018, 08:52 AM

QUOTE (Ice66 @ Oct 21 2018, 12:18 AM) *
tell that to the Chinese, Indonesian, Japanese, Korean, Malaysian, Singaporean, Thai, Vietnamese, Filipino, etc and see how many of them agrees with you. rofl.gif

You're forgetting the Hong Kongese.

And just because a lot of people do it, doesn't mean it's right. It seems to me that these people have yet to explore the culinary delights of a bacon sandwich... or a kebab.


Posted by: vsberlina Oct 21 2018, 11:27 AM

QUOTE (Ice66 @ Oct 21 2018, 03:18 PM) *
tell that to the Chinese, Indonesian, Japanese, Korean, Malaysian, Singaporean, Thai, Vietnamese, Filipino, etc and see how many of them agrees with you. rofl.gif

I think it's a cost thing. Maybe even supply vs quality also. I bet if all things were equal, people could afford good quality meat and it was readily available, then they'd pick that over tofu.

Posted by: PTC Oct 21 2018, 03:13 PM

QUOTE (vsberlina @ Oct 21 2018, 07:27 AM) *
I think it's a cost thing. Maybe even supply vs quality also. I bet if all things were equal, people could afford good quality meat and it was readily available, then they'd pick that over tofu.

Obviously people eat tofu..but do they enjoy it? Isn't it really just a filler, like rice or potatoes?

I've tried it, cooked in a couple of different ways, and would rather not have to try again. Maybe I just need to find the right recipe...

Posted by: Netley Lucas Oct 21 2018, 05:14 PM

As a vegetarian ohmy.gif I think I tried tofu way back in the 80's, horrible! laugh.gif

Posted by: RAPID Oct 21 2018, 09:54 PM

Russians invented...


Oh, next time.

Posted by: vsberlina Oct 22 2018, 12:13 AM

QUOTE (PTC @ Oct 22 2018, 02:13 AM) *
Obviously people eat tofu..but do they enjoy it? Isn't it really just a filler, like rice or potatoes?

I've tried it, cooked in a couple of different ways, and would rather not have to try again. Maybe I just need to find the right recipe...

Rice and potatoes have nutritional value. I don't think tofu has much.
It is indeed a stomach filler, for those who have no choice.
But why try and make it tasty, when the alternative is meat? Don't bother. laugh.gif

Posted by: Ice66 Oct 22 2018, 02:33 AM

QUOTE (vsberlina @ Oct 22 2018, 12:13 AM) *
Rice and potatoes have nutritional value. I don't think tofu has much.
It is indeed a stomach filler, for those who have no choice.
But why try and make it tasty, when the alternative is meat? Don't bother. laugh.gif

oh come on, your ignorance is at a different level. please read up over https://www.bbcgoodfood.com/howto/guide/ingredient-focus-tofu.

tofu vs beef shouldn't even a conversation we should be having. beef is not a substitute for tofu. tofu can be eaten as a cold appetizer or combined with veg or meat. perhaps you can compare it with some forms of cheese like halloumi or mozzarella when combined with salad. it is NOT a stomach filler.

Posted by: Ice66 Oct 22 2018, 02:37 AM

QUOTE (PTC @ Oct 21 2018, 08:52 AM) *
And just because a lot of people do it, doesn't mean it's right. It seems to me that these people have yet to explore the culinary delights of a bacon sandwich... or a kebab.

are you kidding me? tofu is very tasty and can be so versatile. you just don't know enough and you assume others are ignorant. wow.

QUOTE (PTC @ Oct 21 2018, 03:13 PM) *
Obviously people eat tofu..but do they enjoy it? Isn't it really just a filler, like rice or potatoes?

I've tried it, cooked in a couple of different ways, and would rather not have to try again. Maybe I just need to find the right recipe...

yes, i enjoy tofu very very much. you obviously haven't tried it with the right recipe. google it in chinese and you'll find much better recipes. but would you be able to understand how to make those dishes? i'm not sure.

Posted by: xabirocks Oct 22 2018, 06:39 AM

ice, just curious, do you like stinky tofu?

I mustered up the b to try it in shanghai....

Posted by: Ice66 Oct 22 2018, 07:49 AM

QUOTE (xabirocks @ Oct 22 2018, 06:39 AM) *
ice, just curious, do you like stinky tofu?

I mustered up the b to try it in shanghai....

yes i do! funny that you ask this, cuz many people just can't stand the smell of it. i was like that at first, but once you try it, especially when it's nice and hot, add some chili sauce, oh mannnn, the taste is just amazing.

Posted by: PTC Oct 22 2018, 03:56 PM

Now I'm interested.

What is stinky tofu, and how does it go from being regular tofu to stinky tofu?

Posted by: BRFC Oct 22 2018, 05:19 PM

Coincidentally, just had one of my best dishes of the year @Conservatorium Hotel in Amsterdam for work: tofu. I swear I didn't plan this or am making anything up. biggrin.gif

Posted by: PTC Oct 22 2018, 08:43 PM

QUOTE (BRFC @ Oct 22 2018, 01:19 PM) *
Coincidentally, just had one of my best dishes of the year @Conservatorium Hotel in Amsterdam for work: tofu. I swear I didn't plan this or am making anything up. biggrin.gif

VSB won't like this.

Posted by: scoobyliscious Oct 22 2018, 11:48 PM

QUOTE (PTC @ Oct 22 2018, 11:56 AM) *
Now I'm interested.

What is stinky tofu, and how does it go from being regular tofu to stinky tofu?

According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stinky_tofu, it's fermented tofu.

And we know that fermentation, in lots of different forms ("craft" beer, kombucha, kimchi, pickling various things) is bee eye gee, BIG, in the food world these days.

Me? I actually like the original stuff, but, for me, it is more of a palette for flavor (see: sofritas from Chipotle, not that it's very Latin, but it IS tasty and tofu-based) than a mainstay flavor in-and-of-itself. And, despite the aforementioned 'Potle, I use it in conjunction with a main protein (meat-ey something) rather than as a substitute.

As for the "why," because it is, nutritionally, similar to a protein (https://www.thespruceeats.com/tofu-nutritional-value-information-3376923), but at a much lower overall cost to acquire. Meat means you have to grow food to feed the meat animals, keep the meat animals (including "away from predators") and give them time to grow to a size. It's not a very "efficient" method of using biological energy. Tofu, which is soy, is quicker-to-market at a lower cost-per-energy for you, the consumer. You know, like most (maybe all?) vegetables. I am by no means a vegetarian (or sympathizer: we evolved canine teeth from our evolutionary predecessors; and they serve just the one purpose: to rip flesh asunder), but the Western diet has become far too accustomed to daily meat, when it should be celebrated as a treat and we should use more of the "whole animal" (mmm, homemade broths - and don't get me started on the joys of marrow). Or, maybe that's just my natural left-ey peaking out from the recesses of my brain.

But hey. You don't have to like everything (for example, I could do without the U.S.-staple "button" mushrooms, which have a terrible slimy texture, or the similarly textured okra) you eat; as long as you try it first (my general rule is: stuff your face first, ask what was served later - it keeps your ill-trained "ewww that's gross" portion of your brain from ruining your enjoyment of, say, 100-year eggs or grasshopper puree). You tried; you didn't like. Move on (and try to do so without a serving of hater-ade for the ingredient along the way).

Posted by: vsberlina Oct 23 2018, 03:12 AM

QUOTE (PTC @ Oct 23 2018, 02:56 AM) *
Now I'm interested.

What is stinky tofu, and how does it go from being regular tofu to stinky tofu?

Its passes through the human intestinal tract, then the anus. Then it gets recycled?

Posted by: WALOR Oct 23 2018, 03:45 AM

QUOTE (vsberlina @ Oct 22 2018, 11:12 PM) *
Its passes through the human intestinal tract, then the anus. Then it gets recycled?


Reminds me of a joke:

Difference between a rectal thermometer and a regular thermometer?
- the taste

Posted by: WALOR Oct 23 2018, 03:46 AM

QUOTE (RAPID @ Oct 21 2018, 05:54 PM) *
Russians invented...


Oh, next time.


Paging Mr. Kalashnikov...

Posted by: BRFC Oct 23 2018, 08:56 AM

QUOTE (PTC @ Oct 22 2018, 10:43 PM) *
VSB won't like this.


Posted by: vsberlina Oct 23 2018, 10:03 AM

QUOTE (Ice66 @ Oct 22 2018, 01:33 PM) *
oh come on, your ignorance is at a different level. please read up over https://www.bbcgoodfood.com/howto/guide/ingredient-focus-tofu.

tofu vs beef shouldn't even a conversation we should be having. beef is not a substitute for tofu. tofu can be eaten as a cold appetizer or combined with veg or meat. perhaps you can compare it with some forms of cheese like halloumi or mozzarella when combined with salad. it is NOT a stomach filler.

Now that I've read your pro-tofu propaganda, you can read some https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/12/04/soy-dangers-summarized.aspx. biggrin.gif

In ancient China, I can understand why they ate tofu or drank soy, but they are foul tasting and today, we have pasteurised milk and lots of great cheeses. There's no need to eat tofu or drink soy.

As for beef, I don't eat much beef. The fat is embedded in the meat so you have an unwanted bi-product with high cholesterol levels. There's much better meats, with less fat and cholesterol. Fish (salmon), chicken breast, pork (fat is on the outside so can be easily removed), goat.

Duck is a Chinese staple and as good as chicken (providing you don't eat the fatty skin).

Posted by: vsberlina Oct 23 2018, 10:05 AM

QUOTE (BRFC @ Oct 23 2018, 04:19 AM) *
Coincidentally, just had one of my best dishes of the year @Conservatorium Hotel in Amsterdam for work: tofu. I swear I didn't plan this or am making anything up. biggrin.gif



QUOTE (PTC @ Oct 23 2018, 07:43 AM) *
VSB won't like this.

The Dutch let the Nazis roll on through without firing a bullet. They don't have my respect.

Who goes to the Conservatorium for tofu? What happened to the lobster? I'd be having lobster. They saw you coming.

Posted by: vsberlina Oct 23 2018, 10:19 AM

QUOTE (scoobyliscious @ Oct 23 2018, 10:48 AM) *
According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stinky_tofu, it's fermented tofu.

And we know that fermentation, in lots of different forms ("craft" beer, kombucha, kimchi, pickling various things) is bee eye gee, BIG, in the food world these days.

Me? I actually like the original stuff, but, for me, it is more of a palette for flavor (see: sofritas from Chipotle, not that it's very Latin, but it IS tasty and tofu-based) than a mainstay flavor in-and-of-itself. And, despite the aforementioned 'Potle, I use it in conjunction with a main protein (meat-ey something) rather than as a substitute.

As for the "why," because it is, nutritionally, similar to a protein (https://www.thespruceeats.com/tofu-nutritional-value-information-3376923), but at a much lower overall cost to acquire. Meat means you have to grow food to feed the meat animals, keep the meat animals (including "away from predators") and give them time to grow to a size. It's not a very "efficient" method of using biological energy. Tofu, which is soy, is quicker-to-market at a lower cost-per-energy for you, the consumer. You know, like most (maybe all?) vegetables. I am by no means a vegetarian (or sympathizer: we evolved canine teeth from our evolutionary predecessors; and they serve just the one purpose: to rip flesh asunder), but the Western diet has become far too accustomed to daily meat, when it should be celebrated as a treat and we should use more of the "whole animal" (mmm, homemade broths - and don't get me started on the joys of marrow). Or, maybe that's just my natural left-ey peaking out from the recesses of my brain.

But hey. You don't have to like everything (for example, I could do without the U.S.-staple "button" mushrooms, which have a terrible slimy texture, or the similarly textured okra) you eat; as long as you try it first (my general rule is: stuff your face first, ask what was served later - it keeps your ill-trained "ewww that's gross" portion of your brain from ruining your enjoyment of, say, 100-year eggs or grasshopper puree). You tried; you didn't like. Move on (and try to do so without a serving of hater-ade for the ingredient along the way).

I like marrow. smile.gif

This discussion started as 'contributions to modern society by cultures'. Ice said the Chinese gave us tofu. I'm saying they can take it back. laugh.gif

The Greeks gave the phalanx, the olympics, medicine, math, arts, democracy and so much more that is used today.

But tofu seems to 'trump' (according to xabirocks) all of those. laugh.gif

Posted by: BRFC Oct 23 2018, 01:40 PM

QUOTE (vsberlina @ Oct 23 2018, 12:05 PM) *
The Dutch let the Nazis roll on through without firing a bullet. They don't have my respect.

Who goes to the Conservatorium for tofu? What happened to the lobster? I'd be having lobster. They saw you coming.

biggrin.gif Another subject to educate yourself on. You're compiling quite the list for yourself. Ignoramus is Greek too, I suppose?
They held the Germans back actually, for a couple of days. Then the Luftwaffe bombed Rotterdam and threatened to do the same to Utrecht.

Random Wiki:

QUOTE
The Wehrmacht finally attacked the Netherlands in the early hours of 10 May 1940. The attack started with the Luftwaffe crossing through Dutch airspace, giving the impression that Britain was the ultimate target. Instead, the aircraft turned around over the North Sea and returned to attack from the west, dropping paratroopers at Valkenburg and Ockenburg airfields, near the Dutch seat of government and the Royal Palace in The Hague, starting the Battle for the Hague. While Germany had planned to take over swiftly using this tactic, the Dutch halted the advance at the core region of Fortress Holland, slowing down the German invasion.

Posted by: xabirocks Oct 23 2018, 02:07 PM

QUOTE (vsberlina @ Oct 23 2018, 03:49 PM) *
But tofu seems to 'trump' (according to xabirocks) all of those. laugh.gif


I never said I liked tofu. (I don't mind it though) The truth didn't stop trump, I don't expect it to matter to you.
You trumpet on.



Stinky tofu.. now that was one step too far for me. Never again. I tried it, gave it a fair go, didn't like it. My chinese mates said it wasn't the best preparation, in truth, I don't think I'll like any version of stinky tofu. The one I had was plain stinky tofu - and it tasted (taste is dominated by the smell) like crap, no metaphor intended.

I like to believe I have a fairly open mind when it comes to trying to new cuisines. My friend actually retched and almost threw up after simply smelling stinky tofu. I guess it's an acquired taste and is extremely polarizing. Much like durian.
You have to understand, that one, I am a vegetarian, and two, I am Indian, so the taste for me is very very different. But I really liked the asian spices when I tried them.

Posted by: PTC Oct 23 2018, 03:52 PM

QUOTE (xabirocks @ Oct 23 2018, 10:07 AM) *
My friend actually retched and almost threw up after simply smelling stinky tofu.

That would be me.

I'm always open to trying new cuisine, but if I don't like the look of it, and/or I don't like the smell of it...it ain't going in my mouth. biggrin.gif

Posted by: crazylegs Oct 23 2018, 05:55 PM

QUOTE (PTC @ Oct 23 2018, 04:52 PM) *
That would be me.

I'm always open to trying new cuisine, but if I don't like the look of it, and/or I don't like the smell of it...it ain't going in my mouth. biggrin.gif

Funny thats what the missus always says

Posted by: scoobyliscious Oct 23 2018, 06:06 PM

QUOTE (BRFC @ Oct 23 2018, 09:40 AM) *
biggrin.gif Another subject to educate yourself on. You're compiling quite the list for yourself. Ignoramus is Greek to, I suppose?
They held the Germans back actually, for a couple of days. Then the Luftwaffe bombed Rotterdam and threatened to do the same to Utrecht.

Random Wiki:

Piling on ... Math has a long, storied and multi-cultural history. The Greeks focused mainly on geometry (hence, Pythagoras and his eponymous Theorem, a2 + b2 = c2 for right triangles), but the Indians (sub-continent) gave us Zero, which is powerfully at the heart of modern mathematics (especially when we extend the concept in Set Theory to the Null Set), the calculus and more. And that's before we get to Leibnitz, Descartes, Newton and the invention of The Calculus and Analytical Geometry. Some of which can be attributed to the Greek tradition (as preserved through the Middle Ages by our Muslim friends in the Middle East), but much of which is entirely new.

But sure, give the credit for the entire underpinnings to one group. Because that surely has to be the answer. It's not like counting or "more versus less" are common concepts throughout human history (or, for that matter, in the natural world, where recent evidence suggests a much broader swathe of the Animal Kingdom uses some form of counting or numerical relations in their daily lives).

Quick aside: yeah, almost missed the "art" in there. Because Lascaux and similar cave paintings (which may be https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2012/06/120614-neanderthal-cave-paintings-spain-science-pike/) are definitely Greek. Or, not art. Which is totally not universal across human history.

Finally, if this Topic is about "contributions to modern society by cultures" and we want to pick on the Chinese, can we discuss this whole Gunpowder thing?


Posted by: BRFC Oct 23 2018, 07:07 PM

QUOTE (scoobyliscious @ Oct 23 2018, 08:06 PM) *
Piling on ... Math has a long, storied and multi-cultural history. The Greeks focused mainly on geometry (hence, Pythagoras and his eponymous Theorem, a2 + b2 = c2 for right triangles), but the Indians (sub-continent) gave us Zero, which is powerfully at the heart of modern mathematics (especially when we extend the concept in Set Theory to the Null Set), the calculus and more. And that's before we get to Leibnitz, Descartes, Newton and the invention of The Calculus and Analytical Geometry. Some of which can be attributed to the Greek tradition (as preserved through the Middle Ages by our Muslim friends in the Middle East), but much of which is entirely new.

But sure, give the credit for the entire underpinnings to one group. Because that surely has to be the answer. It's not like counting or "more versus less" are common concepts throughout human history (or, for that matter, in the natural world, where recent evidence suggests a much broader swathe of the Animal Kingdom uses some form of counting or numerical relations in their daily lives).

Quick aside: yeah, almost missed the "art" in there. Because Lascaux and similar cave paintings (which may be https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2012/06/120614-neanderthal-cave-paintings-spain-science-pike/) are definitely Greek. Or, not art. Which is totally not universal across human history.

Finally, if this Topic is about "contributions to modern society by cultures" and we want to pick on the Chinese, can we discuss this whole Gunpowder thing?


Interesting stuff on the Zero Scoobs. Nice one. yeah, especially the 'Art' claim is beyond ridiculous. But VSB is making some serious efforts here, so I can only respect that. It's just impossible to cede the points for him now, and I would be almost disappointed if he did biggrin.gif

Btw the Persians invented beer didn't they? Or was that wine? Either way, I have found the chosen people for myself and quite likely Netley tongue.gif

Posted by: scoobyliscious Oct 23 2018, 09:01 PM

QUOTE (BRFC @ Oct 23 2018, 03:07 PM) *
Interesting stuff on the Zero Scoobs. Nice one. yeah, especially the 'Art' claim is beyond ridicoulous. But VSB is making some serious efforts here, so I can only respect that. It's just impossible to cede the points for him now, and I would be almost disappointed if he did biggrin.gif

Btw the Persians invented beer didn't they? Or was that wine? Either way, I have found the chosen people for myself and quite likely Netley tongue.gif

As I recall, the origins of beer are pretty disputed, but that's mostly because of a lack of hard (written, cuneiform or otherwise) evidence. Beer and "civilization" (air-quotes quite intentional) seem to appear at about the same time. Which really just indicates how soon after large-scale agriculture (one of the underpinnings of "civilization") beer appears.

And the whole wine thing is pretty disputed, as well. When I traveled Georgia (for my US-based brethren: the country ever-so-slightly north from the Fertile Crescent, not the state ever-so-slightly south from "civilization." Yeah, I said it. Damn Yanquis and all that), the prevailing story is that wine was first fermented in Georgia (where it is prepared in a not-too-dissimilar fashion from what we believe the Ancient Greeks did, i.e. mixed ingredients in a jar or amphora, then buried in the ground and left alone to complete fermentation). Supposedly the Latin "vino" was a bastardization of the Georgian "ghvino" (where the "gh" sound is a bit like an English H if it were spoken by the Yiddish cousin of The Simpsons' Willie the Groundskeeper, but is largely unpronounceable by non-native speakers). But, we all tell creation myths about our cultures that stretch the truth [hence, condemnation of the interactive work between slave and rum trades in the States is downplayed, because it stands in opposition to our self-created mythology as a bastion of Freedom (extreme Mel Gibson voice)], so I don't know how much credence to give the tale. Good story, though.

Back to beer ... I think the oldest recipe is from the http://www.openculture.com/2015/03/the-oldest-beer-recipe-in-history.html (so, Persian is really close, if a few centuries later). I'll admit: some day, I, too, would like to try and brew this stuff, just to see what it is like (apparently, more like hard cider than modern beer).

And now that we have completed our federally mandated allotment of "edutainment" ... What, you thought I would miss an opportunity to pile on VSB and/or PTC? If you have the kind of screen name that lends itself to 3-letter initials, I'll be there to (help) make fun of you. You big Greek hunk, you.

Posted by: JFG Oct 23 2018, 09:02 PM

QUOTE (scoobyliscious @ Oct 23 2018, 07:06 PM) *
...this whole Gunpowder thing?


Posted by: scoobyliscious Oct 23 2018, 09:04 PM

QUOTE (BRFC @ Oct 23 2018, 04:56 AM) *

Umm, is that two large slices of truffle in there? You have me at truffles. Especially in that quantity with even a modicum of skill in preparation.

Posted by: PTC Oct 23 2018, 11:04 PM

QUOTE (scoobyliscious @ Oct 23 2018, 05:04 PM) *
Umm, is that two large slices of truffle in there? You have me at truffles. Especially in that quantity with even a modicum of skill in preparation.

I've been truffle hunting in the Istria region of Slovenia. One man, one dog, many hours, two little black truffles.

Lovely stuff.



Posted by: BRFC Oct 24 2018, 06:43 AM

QUOTE (scoobyliscious @ Oct 23 2018, 11:04 PM) *
Umm, is that two large slices of truffle in there? You have me at truffles. Especially in that quantity with even a modicum of skill in preparation.

Spot on. Soy sauce, sesame seeds, turnip-cabbage, ginger... The home-made fresh tofy serves as the fat in streaky belly if you will. It's a perfect conveyer belt for the richt tastes and really ties the room dish together.

QUOTE (PTC @ Oct 24 2018, 01:04 AM) *
I've been truffle hunting in the Istria region of Slovenia. One man, one dog, many hours, two little black truffles.

Lovely stuff.

One to add to the list. That sounds like a super nice little trip to make. thumbsup.gif

Posted by: vsberlina Oct 24 2018, 01:45 PM

QUOTE (BRFC @ Oct 24 2018, 12:40 AM) *
biggrin.gif Another subject to educate yourself on. You're compiling quite the list for yourself. Ignoramus is Greek too, I suppose?
They held the Germans back actually, for a couple of days. Then the Luftwaffe bombed Rotterdam and threatened to do the same to Utrecht.

Ignoramus was Roman. smile.gif

Couple of days? We lasted 6 months. 6 months gave the Russians time to get organised, and forced Hitler to reach Russia in Winter, not Summer. That gave Russians the advantage, as they were used to Winter and the Germans weren't.

Greek villages were razed to the ground. But that didn't stop the Greeks. We lost 1 million of our 8. 12.5% of our population. The most of any Allied nation. I don't remember Churchill or Hitler praising the Dutch. I think you need to read up on your history. But let me remind you of Churchill's words once again. 'Hence we will not say that Greeks fight like heroes, but that heroes fight like Greeks.'


Posted by: vsberlina Oct 24 2018, 01:50 PM

QUOTE (xabirocks @ Oct 24 2018, 01:07 AM) *
I never said I liked tofu. (I don't mind it though) The truth didn't stop trump, I don't expect it to matter to you.
You trumpet on.



Stinky tofu.. now that was one step too far for me. Never again. I tried it, gave it a fair go, didn't like it. My chinese mates said it wasn't the best preparation, in truth, I don't think I'll like any version of stinky tofu. The one I had was plain stinky tofu - and it tasted (taste is dominated by the smell) like crap, no metaphor intended.

I like to believe I have a fairly open mind when it comes to trying to new cuisines. My friend actually retched and almost threw up after simply smelling stinky tofu. I guess it's an acquired taste and is extremely polarizing. Much like durian.
You have to understand, that one, I am a vegetarian, and two, I am Indian, so the taste for me is very very different. But I really liked the asian spices when I tried them.

Yes, preparation is everything. But the question is, "Why?" Why when there's so many other great foods that are smoked, wood oven, chargrilled, etc.

Durian is best dry. Like crisps. There's no other way to eat it, unless you eat faecal matter.

Laksa. Now there's a dish. Are the Indians claiming it, cos I'm giving it to the Malaysians.

Posted by: vsberlina Oct 24 2018, 01:50 PM

QUOTE (PTC @ Oct 24 2018, 02:52 AM) *
That would be me.

I'm always open to trying new cuisine, but if I don't like the look of it, and/or I don't like the smell of it...it ain't going in my mouth. biggrin.gif

Fried crickets in Bangkok... with a beer. You get a beer.

Posted by: vsberlina Oct 24 2018, 01:57 PM

QUOTE (scoobyliscious @ Oct 24 2018, 05:06 AM) *
Piling on ... Math has a long, storied and multi-cultural history. The Greeks focused mainly on geometry (hence, Pythagoras and his eponymous Theorem, a2 + b2 = c2 for right triangles), but the Indians (sub-continent) gave us Zero, which is powerfully at the heart of modern mathematics (especially when we extend the concept in Set Theory to the Null Set), the calculus and more. And that's before we get to Leibnitz, Descartes, Newton and the invention of The Calculus and Analytical Geometry. Some of which can be attributed to the Greek tradition (as preserved through the Middle Ages by our Muslim friends in the Middle East), but much of which is entirely new.

But sure, give the credit for the entire underpinnings to one group. Because that surely has to be the answer. It's not like counting or "more versus less" are common concepts throughout human history (or, for that matter, in the natural world, where recent evidence suggests a much broader swathe of the Animal Kingdom uses some form of counting or numerical relations in their daily lives).

Quick aside: yeah, almost missed the "art" in there. Because Lascaux and similar cave paintings (which may be https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2012/06/120614-neanderthal-cave-paintings-spain-science-pike/) are definitely Greek. Or, not art. Which is totally not universal across human history.

Finally, if this Topic is about "contributions to modern society by cultures" and we want to pick on the Chinese, can we discuss this whole Gunpowder thing?


Where would the world be without pies, or π? Yep, we'd be in darkness. You can thank the Greeks for π.

Cave paintings next to Greek sculptures? Kids in Kindergarten paint better than Neanderthals.

The Spanish are thieves. They pinched our language. They pinched our olives. They pinched one of us (El Greco).


Posted by: BRFC Oct 24 2018, 02:20 PM

QUOTE (vsberlina @ Oct 23 2018, 12:05 PM) *
without firing a bullet.

You still amuse me smile.gif Long may it continue.

Posted by: vsberlina Oct 24 2018, 03:00 PM

QUOTE (BRFC @ Oct 25 2018, 01:20 AM) *
You still amuse me smile.gif Long may it continue.

The Germans did all the shooting. Friendly fire killed as many of them as it did Dutch.

Posted by: BRFC Oct 24 2018, 04:43 PM

QUOTE (vsberlina @ Oct 24 2018, 05:00 PM) *
The Germans did all the shooting. Friendly fire killed as many of them as it did Dutch.

laugh.gif They probably outnumbered them 30-1, so yeah, that's pretty likely.

Posted by: scoobyliscious Oct 24 2018, 05:46 PM

QUOTE (vsberlina @ Oct 24 2018, 09:57 AM) *
Where would the world be without pies, or π? Yep, we'd be in darkness. You can thank the Greeks for π.

Cave paintings next to Greek sculptures? Kids in Kindergarten paint better than Neanderthals.

The Spanish are thieves. They pinched our language. They pinched our olives. They pinched one of us (El Greco).


Not even close to the most important Spanish artist. I'm more of a Goya man, or, of course Picasso (who was stolen from the Spanish by the French, but if you get El Greco, Spain can have Pablo). If you have to stick with post-Renaissance artists, what about Velazquez?

And the point of Neanderthal art isn't how good it is (technique is bound to improve over time, with better dissemination of information and training, let alone mastery of materials and technology), but that it existed loooooonnnnnnnngggg before the Greeks even thought of "civilization." Would you prefer I use the ancient site of Uruk? I suppose you think the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus_of_Willendorf (dated to several millennia prior to anything near Greece, like 30,000 BCE) is too crude to count for your (completely self-serving and arbitrary) standards of art?

Finally, sticking to my wheelhouse (the mathematics stuff): I'll go on ahead and say it: π is overrated. Much like the Fibonacci sequence, it's a naturally occurring phenomenon described by strict mathematical principles. Sure, they are neat, but they aren't some kind of mystical pathway to enlightenment. It would be more surprising if we (humanity) did not find such sequences or numbers in nature, despite their out-sized importance in certain people's heads (damn those numerologists!). I mean, it's not like we created mathematics to describe the natural world, or anything like that ...

Now, pick up that microphone and plant that kiss on my back-side, you rampant cultural nationalist, you!

(side note: I intentionally avoided any Stone Age Art from Turkey, because I figured you would just claim it was the same as Greek, culturally, if not geographically. I'm curious: do you want the Greeks, as a "civilization" to honor such art, even if it, like Troy, is discovered in modern-day Turkey?)

(second side note: I could go on like this for a loooonnnngggg while. Let me know if/when you've had enough. Doesn't mean surrender, just temporary armistice in the Cultural Nationalism debate).

Posted by: Ice66 Oct 25 2018, 02:36 AM

QUOTE (scoobyliscious @ Oct 22 2018, 11:48 PM) *
According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stinky_tofu, it's fermented tofu.

And we know that fermentation, in lots of different forms ("craft" beer, kombucha, kimchi, pickling various things) is bee eye gee, BIG, in the food world these days.

Me? I actually like the original stuff, but, for me, it is more of a palette for flavor (see: sofritas from Chipotle, not that it's very Latin, but it IS tasty and tofu-based) than a mainstay flavor in-and-of-itself. And, despite the aforementioned 'Potle, I use it in conjunction with a main protein (meat-ey something) rather than as a substitute.

As for the "why," because it is, nutritionally, similar to a protein (https://www.thespruceeats.com/tofu-nutritional-value-information-3376923), but at a much lower overall cost to acquire. Meat means you have to grow food to feed the meat animals, keep the meat animals (including "away from predators") and give them time to grow to a size. It's not a very "efficient" method of using biological energy. Tofu, which is soy, is quicker-to-market at a lower cost-per-energy for you, the consumer. You know, like most (maybe all?) vegetables. I am by no means a vegetarian (or sympathizer: we evolved canine teeth from our evolutionary predecessors; and they serve just the one purpose: to rip flesh asunder), but the Western diet has become far too accustomed to daily meat, when it should be celebrated as a treat and we should use more of the "whole animal" (mmm, homemade broths - and don't get me started on the joys of marrow). Or, maybe that's just my natural left-ey peaking out from the recesses of my brain.

But hey. You don't have to like everything (for example, I could do without the U.S.-staple "button" mushrooms, which have a terrible slimy texture, or the similarly textured okra) you eat; as long as you try it first (my general rule is: stuff your face first, ask what was served later - it keeps your ill-trained "ewww that's gross" portion of your brain from ruining your enjoyment of, say, 100-year eggs or grasshopper puree). You tried; you didn't like. Move on (and try to do so without a serving of hater-ade for the ingredient along the way).

I didn't expect someone that isn't Chinese to explain to people what stinky tofu is.

This is a well written piece. We should save it somewhere so someone else (like vsb and ptc) can read it and educate themselves what tofu is about. It is not a substitute to meat, I totally agree, I eat it together with my protein as well. It is also not a stomach filler, no way.

btw scoobs, I just wanted to point out it's 1000 year old eggs, not 100. incidentally, one of my most loved dishes when i was a kid was tofu with 1000 year old eggs, served cold as an appetizer. man, i would eat so much of it. it is probably more akin to Northern Chinese diet than Southern (which is what HK's cuisine is largely based on). I now find myself allergic to the 100 year old eggs, which is a pity, because i actually like eating it a lot.

Posted by: Ice66 Oct 25 2018, 02:38 AM

QUOTE (BRFC @ Oct 23 2018, 08:56 AM) *

beautiful. what's the stuff on the right?

Posted by: Ice66 Oct 25 2018, 02:54 AM

QUOTE (vsberlina @ Oct 23 2018, 10:19 AM) *
This discussion started as 'contributions to modern society by cultures'. Ice said the Chinese gave us tofu. I'm saying they can take it back. laugh.gif

i included tofu as one of the contributions and by no means the only one.

QUOTE (scoobyliscious @ Oct 23 2018, 06:06 PM) *
Finally, if this Topic is about "contributions to modern society by cultures" and we want to pick on the Chinese, can we discuss this whole Gunpowder thing?

yeah sure, you're absolutely right about this. we did, by accident, discovered gunpowder. but these are the sort of stuff where even if it wasn't for us, some other groups would have discovered it anyway. smile.gif


Posted by: Ice66 Oct 25 2018, 02:59 AM

QUOTE (vsberlina @ Oct 24 2018, 01:50 PM) *
Durian is best dry. Like crisps. There's no other way to eat it, unless you eat faecal matter.

Laksa. Now there's a dish. Are the Indians claiming it, cos I'm giving it to the Malaysians.

yeah absolutely, i don't like durian as well, but i know plenty that loves it. similar phenomenon with tofu.

with regards to the origins of laksa, read up over https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laksa#Origin.

still, i don't get why the need to identify and claim credit for whatever invention or discovery by any ethnic group? why does it even matter?

Posted by: Ice66 Oct 25 2018, 03:15 AM

QUOTE (scoobyliscious @ Oct 23 2018, 06:06 PM) *
Piling on ... Math has a long, storied and multi-cultural history. The Greeks focused mainly on geometry (hence, Pythagoras and his eponymous Theorem, a2 + b2 = c2 for right triangles), but the Indians (sub-continent) gave us Zero, which is powerfully at the heart of modern mathematics (especially when we extend the concept in Set Theory to the Null Set), the calculus and more. And that's before we get to Leibnitz, Descartes, Newton and the invention of The Calculus and Analytical Geometry. Some of which can be attributed to the Greek tradition (as preserved through the Middle Ages by our Muslim friends in the Middle East), but much of which is entirely new.

when xabi started contributing in this thread, this was what crossed my mind. the indian's contribution to math. the importance of moving from roman numerals to hindu-arabic numerals. looks like someone is really into math. i haven't come across those names in many years, since college. things like limits, functions, derivatives, and integrals... ahhh the gold old days.

QUOTE (scoobyliscious @ Oct 24 2018, 05:46 PM) *
And the point of Neanderthal art isn't how good it is (technique is bound to improve over time, with better dissemination of information and training, let alone mastery of materials and technology), but that it existed loooooonnnnnnnngggg before the Greeks even thought of "civilization."

yeah, you gotta spell out the point you're making when you're conversing with vsb. biggrin.gif

QUOTE
I'll go on ahead and say it: π is overrated. Much like the Fibonacci sequence, it's a naturally occurring phenomenon described by strict mathematical principles. Sure, they are neat, but they aren't some kind of mystical pathway to enlightenment.

again, i agree with this fully. somebody discovered something that merely describes what we see in nature. i think the discovery of earth is round for example is more of an "aha" moment than coming up with pi.

Posted by: Netley Lucas Oct 25 2018, 05:03 AM


Posted by: WALOR Oct 25 2018, 01:40 PM

QUOTE (Ice66 @ Oct 24 2018, 10:38 PM) *
beautiful. what's the stuff on the right?


Tater Tot, you philistine

Posted by: PTC Oct 25 2018, 02:08 PM

QUOTE (WALOR @ Oct 25 2018, 09:40 AM) *
Tater Tot, you philistine

laugh.gif

Posted by: PTC Oct 25 2018, 02:21 PM

QUOTE (Ice66 @ Oct 24 2018, 10:36 PM) *
This is a well written piece. We should save it somewhere so someone else (like vsb and ptc) can read it and educate themselves what tofu is about. It is not a substitute to meat, I totally agree, I eat it together with my protein as well. It is also not a stomach filler, no way.

FYI. I've spent a bit of time in China, HK, Japan. I know what tofu is. Just couldn't be bothered Googling what stinky tofu is.

More laziness than ignorance. biggrin.gif



When we're done with tofu, I think we need to move to the next item on the agenda...Marmite/Vegemite.

Umami! (This will get scooby's attention.)

Posted by: BRFC Oct 25 2018, 04:06 PM

QUOTE (Ice66 @ Oct 25 2018, 04:38 AM) *
beautiful. what's the stuff on the right?

That's the turnip cabbage. It was prepared sous vide and infused with 5 spices.

Posted by: Ice66 Oct 25 2018, 04:55 PM

QUOTE (WALOR @ Oct 25 2018, 01:40 PM) *
Tater Tot, you philistine

rofl.gif

QUOTE (PTC @ Oct 25 2018, 02:21 PM) *
FYI. I've spent a bit of time in China, HK, Japan. I know what tofu is. Just couldn't be bothered Googling what stinky tofu is.

More laziness than ignorance. biggrin.gif

if you knew, you wouldn't have to google what it is. smile.gif you wouldn't have to google what jam is, for example, would you?

QUOTE
When we're done with tofu, I think we need to move to the next item on the agenda...Marmite/Vegemite.

ugh, i've tried both, and honestly both are quite salty and falls under the category of "acquired taste".

Posted by: Ice66 Oct 25 2018, 04:56 PM

QUOTE (BRFC @ Oct 25 2018, 04:06 PM) *
That's the turnip cabbage. It was prepared sous vide and infused with 5 spices.

looks good - that was a Chinese restaurant?

Posted by: PTC Oct 25 2018, 05:07 PM

QUOTE (Ice66 @ Oct 25 2018, 12:55 PM) *
you wouldn't have to google what jam is, for example, would you?

What kind of jam?

Bacon jam?


Posted by: PTC Oct 25 2018, 05:08 PM

QUOTE (Ice66 @ Oct 25 2018, 12:55 PM) *
ugh, i've tried both, and honestly both are quite salty and falls under the category of "acquired taste".

So, you're saying it's disgusting...like tofu. biggrin.gif

Posted by: Ice66 Oct 25 2018, 05:13 PM

QUOTE (PTC @ Oct 25 2018, 05:08 PM) *
So, you're saying it's disgusting...like tofu. biggrin.gif

surely, you meant stinky tofu.

Posted by: scoobyliscious Nov 15 2018, 05:23 PM

Can't believe it took me this long to get back here ...

  1. Marmite / Vegemite: I'll go with "not good." Frankly, when you use the suffix -ite, whatever food you think you are making, it's bound to taste like salts. Or, salty versions of the root word, i.e. like a salty vegetable or, and I can't help but think this, like a salty Marmot. I'm good with eating rodent, when necessary. Even better, I like a good sheared beaver coat (my wife worked for a furrier for a while, and the general shopper is an older couple; so, her favorite "trick" was to ask the husband if he wanted to feel how soft the sheared beaver was, and then walk him over to the correct coat; have to love saucy women!). And, I'm ok with umami, but, as a flavor, it needs something to balance it. Neither of the -ites has any balance (I'm thinking it's the food equivalent of Bambi on ice), so I'm pretty out.
  2. Mmmmm, bacon jam!
  3. Is turnip cabbage a turnip or a cabbage? And which 5 spices (or do you mean what we in the States call "Chinese 5 spice": star anise, cloves, cinnamon, pepper and fennel? I've spent some time with both turnips and cabbage, but I'm not sure I've ever tried to season them with 5-spice. Now that I think about it, I bet a fennel and roasted turnips salad would be pretty tasty


As for "contributions" and since we are a week away, I think we need to discuss that most American of holidays, Thanksgiving (quiet down in the back, Canada, I'm using "American" in the general New World sense, and when you have the world's largest economy, you can complain about it): a celebration of gluttony, cultural appropriation and boundless possibility disguised as humility.

It's the best (although, we really need to decide upon a better protein than turkey).

Posted by: PTC Nov 15 2018, 07:20 PM

I'm trying to convince my wife to try goose for Christmas.

I have no chance of success, but a boy can dream.

Posted by: RAPID Nov 15 2018, 08:39 PM

QUOTE (PTC @ Nov 15 2018, 10:20 PM) *
I'm trying to convince my wife to try goose for Christmas.

I have no chance of success, but a boy can dream.

A boy can, you can't. tongue.gif

Posted by: PTC Nov 15 2018, 10:17 PM

QUOTE (RAPID @ Nov 15 2018, 03:39 PM) *
A boy can, you can't. tongue.gif

That's rather mean spirited. sad.gif

You ain't no spring chicken. Are you 30 yet?

Posted by: RAPID Nov 16 2018, 12:13 AM

QUOTE (PTC @ Nov 16 2018, 01:17 AM) *
That's rather mean spirited. sad.gif

You ain't no spring chicken. Are you 30 yet?

I'm not even 13 yet...

Posted by: vsberlina Nov 16 2018, 02:29 AM

QUOTE (scoobyliscious @ Nov 16 2018, 04:23 AM) *
Can't believe it took me this long to get back here ...

  1. Marmite / Vegemite: I'll go with "not good." Frankly, when you use the suffix -ite, whatever food you think you are making, it's bound to taste like salts. Or, salty versions of the root word, i.e. like a salty vegetable or, and I can't help but think this, like a salty Marmot. I'm good with eating rodent, when necessary. Even better, I like a good sheared beaver coat (my wife worked for a furrier for a while, and the general shopper is an older couple; so, her favorite "trick" was to ask the husband if he wanted to feel how soft the sheared beaver was, and then walk him over to the correct coat; have to love saucy women!). And, I'm ok with umami, but, as a flavor, it needs something to balance it. Neither of the -ites has any balance (I'm thinking it's the food equivalent of Bambi on ice), so I'm pretty out.
  2. Mmmmm, bacon jam!
  3. Is turnip cabbage a turnip or a cabbage? And which 5 spices (or do you mean what we in the States call "Chinese 5 spice": star anise, cloves, cinnamon, pepper and fennel? I've spent some time with both turnips and cabbage, but I'm not sure I've ever tried to season them with 5-spice. Now that I think about it, I bet a fennel and roasted turnips salad would be pretty tasty


As for "contributions" and since we are a week away, I think we need to discuss that most American of holidays, Thanksgiving (quiet down in the back, Canada, I'm using "American" in the general New World sense, and when you have the world's largest economy, you can complain about it): a celebration of gluttony, cultural appropriation and boundless possibility disguised as humility.

It's the best (although, we really need to decide upon a better protein than turkey).

Anything with a suffix of -ite, usually is preceded with a prefix of -sh.

Ah, good old Thanksgiving. The giving of thanks to the generous natives who gave their land to the newcomers.
Or, the celebration of the murder of the natives and the theft of their land. But hey, the victor always gets to write history.

Posted by: WALOR Nov 17 2018, 10:35 PM

QUOTE (vsberlina @ Nov 15 2018, 09:29 PM) *
Anything with a suffix of -ite, usually is preceded with a prefix of -sh.

Ah, good old Thanksgiving. The giving of thanks to the generous natives who gave their land to the newcomers.
Or, the celebration of the murder of the natives and the theft of their land. But hey, the victor always gets to write history.


We stole it fair and square

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