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> Brexit, Vent Your Spleen!
Netley Lucas
post Yesterday, 01:10 PM
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Are we heading for No Deal v No Brexit? ohmy.gif

May seems to have hardened, she appears to be ruling out a long extension (when) if she loses, the tone is very much my deal or no deal! Don't order the champagne just yet TJ (you champagne socialist! biggrin.gif )

There is now a sudden swing away from People's Vote to Revoke Article 50 - stop Brexit completely! ohmy.gif

She alienated much exisiting support last night, she can't get the DUP, the ERG or the Labour Leavers on board, she's heading for another mighty defeat and legally we leave next Friday. SNP believe Parliament can bypass May and call for a vote on unilaterally stopping Brexit. Is it legal? They think so. ohmy.gif

Just imagine if hours before leaving, Parliament votes on stopping Brexit... No Deal or Remain!
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Netley Lucas
post Yesterday, 01:18 PM
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Must admit I was under the impression that Government can change the law (that would be needed to stop Brexit) and that Parliament is the mechanism, not the judge, but maybe something has changed? Better find out eh? laugh.gif
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tigerjames
post Yesterday, 01:35 PM
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I'll get my yellow vest


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Netley Lucas
post Yesterday, 03:05 PM
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"The solemn duty of every MP is to do what he or she thinks is right." Bercow

"The UK public elects Members of Parliament (MPs) to represent their interests and concerns in the House of Commons." parliament.uk

Bercow, like the EU, does not believe elected MP's are servants of the people. They believe they are there to impose their will on the people, they are the bosses, we are... the plebs TJ. laugh.gif
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scoobyliscious
post Yesterday, 04:52 PM
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QUOTE (Netley Lucas @ Mar 21 2019, 11:05 AM) *
"The solemn duty of every MP is to do what he or she thinks is right." Bercow

"The UK public elects Members of Parliament (MPs) to represent their interests and concerns in the House of Commons." parliament.uk

Bercow, like the EU, does not believe elected MP's are servants of the people. They believe they are there to impose their will on the people, they are the bosses, we are... the plebs TJ. laugh.gif

I'm dim. Or dull. Or naive. Or [expletive deleted] stupid.

But, I don't see how "do what he or she thinks is right" necessarily implies an MP is not the servant of the people. Wasn't an MP elected to vote via a particular "platform" of ideas, outlined during the election, which (more or less) align with "what he or she thinks is right"?

How else should an elected official determine the execution of her duties? Align with the polling information (by district) for every vote?

Or is it the (terribly) mis-placed third-person plural adjective "their" in the second sentence, which ambiguously refers to either the UK Public or the Members of Parliament, allowing the sentence to read as representing the UK Public's interest and concerns or to read as representing the MPs interests and concerns (somewhere, my grammar teachers are smiling)? I, personally, doubt that he meant "represent the MPs interest and concerns" but that may just be my trying to avoid cynicism, unless it's called for (which, come to think of it, cynicism may be called for in this case).


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Netley Lucas
post Yesterday, 05:32 PM
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QUOTE (scoobyliscious @ Mar 21 2019, 04:52 PM) *
I'm dim. Or dull. Or naive. Or [expletive deleted] stupid.

But, I don't see how "do what he or she thinks is right" necessarily implies an MP is not the servant of the people. Wasn't an MP elected to vote via a particular "platform" of ideas, outlined during the election, which (more or less) align with "what he or she thinks is right"?

How else should an elected official determine the execution of her duties? Align with the polling information (by district) for every vote?

Or is it the (terribly) mis-placed third-person plural adjective "their" in the second sentence, which ambiguously refers to either the UK Public or the Members of Parliament, allowing the sentence to read as representing the UK Public's interest and concerns or to read as representing the MPs interests and concerns (somewhere, my grammar teachers are smiling)? I, personally, doubt that he meant "represent the MPs interest and concerns" but that may just be my trying to avoid cynicism, unless it's called for (which, come to think of it, cynicism may be called for in this case).


Very funny, but not without a grain of truth! laugh.gif

This is the democratic deficit that's causing Brexit to be so problematic for MP's Scooby. They are overwhelmingly pro-Remain yet have been elected on Leave manifestos. It's not just the Tories who are guilty of this, Labour too. Over 80% of MP's in the UK were elected on a Leave manifesto yet Bercow says their duty is to do what they think is right, not what they were elected to do.

I admire the remainers who have voted against Brexit every step of the way, they are noble. It's the sneaks who have voted for Brexit Acts in Parliament, massive majorities, who have always been trying to stop it, with Bercow's help, that are the problem.

And let's be clear about Bercow, Labour MP's have admitted that despite his well documented bullying of staff they did not get rid of him precisely because he would be of use to Remainers against Government... do the right thing, just words.

Mind you, May blaming MP's is a bit rich but nearly all political careers end in failure and this will be no exception.
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scoobyliscious
post Yesterday, 05:51 PM
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QUOTE (Netley Lucas @ Mar 21 2019, 01:32 PM) *
Very funny, but not without a grain of truth! laugh.gif

This is the democratic deficit that's causing Brexit to be so problematic for MP's Scooby. They are overwhelmingly pro-Remain yet have been elected on Leave manifestos. It's not just the Tories who are guilty of this, Labour too. Over 80% of MP's in the UK were elected on a Leave manifesto yet Bercow says their duty is to do what they think is right, not what they were elected to do.

I admire the remainers who have voted against Brexit every step of the way, they are noble. It's the sneaks who have voted for Brexit Acts in Parliament, massive majorities, who have always been trying to stop it, with Bercow's help, that are the problem.

And let's be clear about Bercow, Labour MP's have admitted that despite his well documented bullying of staff they did not get rid of him precisely because he would be of use to Remainers against Government... do the right thing, just words.

Mind you, May blaming MP's is a bit rich but nearly all political careers end in failure and this will be no exception.

Ah - so the problem is the "platform" on which someone was voted and "what he or she thinks is right" are different? I suppose the follow-up joke is something about knowing a politician is lying because his lips are moving.

Despite my glibness: that situation (representatives with a platform / mandate that differs from personal belief) blows. Especially in this case. I really can't stand deceivers: own your Stuff. Or, as I often like to say: if your Agenda is so good for Everyone, why do you think you need to hide it? (and yes, within foreign policy / national security concerns, that question is not, in fact, rhetorical; nevertheless, the point that you should be able to state your case, on any issue, openly and subsequently debate your case, remains a valid point).


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Netley Lucas
post Yesterday, 05:56 PM
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Word is small extension to 22nd May if deal is passed, no long extension because UK won't be doing EU elections.

If that's true then expect Remain to unleash hell, because No Deal looks favourite. ohmy.gif
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Netley Lucas
post Yesterday, 06:42 PM
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Taking their time? This small extension needs all members to agree... is there a problem? ohmy.gif

Imagine if Italy said no, and that's it, we're out! laugh.gif
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Netley Lucas
post Yesterday, 07:21 PM
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Sounds like they're removing the 'deal must pass' bit from the extension, removes No Deal Brexit next Friday! 7th May? rolleyes.gif
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Netley Lucas
post Yesterday, 07:47 PM
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QUOTE (scoobyliscious @ Mar 21 2019, 05:51 PM) *
Ah - so the problem is the "platform" on which someone was voted and "what he or she thinks is right" are different? I suppose the follow-up joke is something about knowing a politician is lying because his lips are moving.

Despite my glibness: that situation (representatives with a platform / mandate that differs from personal belief) blows. Especially in this case. I really can't stand deceivers: own your Stuff. Or, as I often like to say: if your Agenda is so good for Everyone, why do you think you need to hide it? (and yes, within foreign policy / national security concerns, that question is not, in fact, rhetorical; nevertheless, the point that you should be able to state your case, on any issue, openly and subsequently debate your case, remains a valid point).


Exactly, and tbf many good MP's have been scrupulously honest about their views all along and that's where we should be, whatever the view. The ones who platformed on the Brexit ticket and ticked all the right boxes then mission-creep towards Remaining are the real problem because they're so believable and have been trained in the art of deception by real experts.

Speaking of Blair, you'll note his can't have a Bad Deal and can't have a No Deal leads to Remain? It's a fait accompli because the starting point is always a bad deal because there's never any intention of getting a good deal but it sounds reasonable because he's good at it. laugh.gif
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tigerjames
post Yesterday, 07:55 PM
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lol

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I'm off to the pub... rolleyes.gif


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Netley Lucas
post Yesterday, 08:00 PM
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You'll need a drink, they're now talking about an extension back-up to end of year!!! ohmy.gif

That would mean we have to do the EU elections! Strewth, which part of Leaving the EU don't they get? laugh.gif
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tigerjames
post Yesterday, 08:20 PM
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QUOTE (Netley Lucas @ Mar 21 2019, 08:00 PM) *
You'll need a drink, they're now talking about an extension back-up to end of year!!! ohmy.gif

That would mean we have to do the EU elections! Strewth, which part of Leaving the EU don't they get? laugh.gif


E-lection U-turn


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Netley Lucas
post Yesterday, 08:48 PM
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Hang on, has Jordan Peterson just been banned from Cambridge? laugh.gif Didn't he do Oxford? He's not a racist or misogynist, he's one of the biggest free-thinkers in the world right now, isn't he? He's upsetting the world of woke but he's not that bad to be banning is he?
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Netley Lucas
post Yesterday, 09:07 PM
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So May was grilled for 90' and refused to tell them what her plans were if she lost! They've gone to dinner without her. Sounds as if they know she'll lose and are looking for a way out of No Deal Brexit next Friday, maybe they're at long last really worried she'll take us out without a deal? Can't see how a back-up(losers plan) of end of year helps much, she surely won't commit to EU elections after what she told the public last night, plus Farage will smash both Tory & Labour. Chief whip apparently went mental last night, looks like she's lost him too! ohmy.gif
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tigerjames
post Yesterday, 09:45 PM
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QUOTE (Netley Lucas @ Mar 21 2019, 01:10 PM) *
Don't order the champagne just yet TJ (you champagne socialist! biggrin.gif )



That's french rolleyes.gif NO.Manchester pop wink.gif


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Netley Lucas
post Yesterday, 10:21 PM
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Boddington then, still called Bodies? laugh.gif Yuk! Had a pint in 1982, nearly puked! laugh.gif

Ok, the EU have decided that May has no plan so they are taking over and working on a plan for the UK! laugh.gif You think I jest? They are suddenly petrified of No Deal! Expect a short extension with an option to extend further. They are not going to be blamed for the UK crashing out... 4 hours late, things just got real. laugh.gif
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Netley Lucas
post Yesterday, 10:38 PM
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22nd May if the deal is accepted, if not the UK has until 12th April to return with fresh proposals! That last bit is the key because this deal looks dead.

Clearly the EU got spooked by May's inability to express herself (unwillingness?) and she has a bit of breathing space, so have her enemies. All still to play for, No Deal Brexit won't happen next Friday, they want another way, Remainers will be pleased as the possibility of Parliament taking control of events, just rose dramatically.
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Netley Lucas
post Today, 09:45 AM
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So what now? May plows on with this dead deal? Her problems are many, she hasn't the numbers so will she even bother? No Deal Brexit looks dead too after last night's humiliation when the EU effectively took control of the UK's 'plans'.

Looks likely that the blockers & wreckers takeover aided by the gleeful Bercow and a long extension wins. Brexit is dying, it will get weaker and weaker, how can it not? Farage springs to life in the Spring and wipes the floor in the EU elections, May is ousted and a new Tory leader has no mandate so a general election? Voters are the mood to punish, both Tory & Labour are very much in the firing line and who do you think stands to benefit?

When the main parties fail to deliver Brexit, look who's back...



...and this time it's serious.
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Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 22nd March 2019 - 03:21 PM