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> Brexit, Vent Your Spleen!
Netley Lucas
post Mar 22 2019, 05:04 PM
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As the Gov prepares for indicative votes on alternative options the Brexiteer mood darkens significantly. Is this just the latest plan to coax them to back her deal or is this reality, a Remain Parliament taking back control?

No doubt some Brexiteers think the former but I sense this is for real, Brexit is sliding down the drain and the best option is to hold noses, back her deal and then get rid of her by withdrawing all support, she'd have to go. We saw last night how the EU took control of Brexit, they stopped a No Deal Brexit, effectively we got owned.

The numbers look grim but could improve if she quit after a win, it could get it over the line still but she is now the blockage, as Fraser Nelson puts it;

If Mrs Mays deal is voted down again, Parliament could name its preferred form of Brexit. Then at the last minute Brussels would reveal the terms under which it will grant Britain an extension. They would be quickly approved by nervous MPs. It would be the EU that ends up taking back control.

There is an alternative ending to this story. That Brexiteers vote through her (bad) deal, recognising it as the best platform from which to fight for something better. This would be the end: of these talks, at least. A new phase would begin, aimed at securing a trade deal before the general election so no time to waste. Mrs May then says these new talks need a new leader, so she would go gracefully, thanked for her extraordinary strength, stamina and sense of public duty. She would have completed phase one and kept her party together. Just.
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Netley Lucas
post Mar 29 2019, 05:47 PM
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MP's are becoming very good at voting against things but that will (have to) change on Monday. The EU is looking for an(y) excuse to extend 'the process' and a majority on one of these indicative votes should be enough. It will not be good for Brexiteers, CU or Ref11 are now staring them in the face. Yes the default position is still No Deal but only the hardest of the hard nuts believe that's still likely. May clings grimly on, the walking dead, she needs to go asap and get the Tories a Brexit believer up top fast, because the way things are going Jezzer will get his way and... an election! ohmy.gif
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Netley Lucas
post Apr 4 2019, 09:55 AM
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All hopes of a proper Brexit are almost gone as the tone turns to CU and RefII despite neither commanding a majority. Once again MP's seem able to say what they don't want, and even then only just. Jezzer seems in control and can define where this goes, an even bigger mess would suit him, he will not help the Tories.

From a Brexit pov the best way forward seems to be to stomach the short-term pain, take a long delay, get shot of May, have an election and try to get a Tory majority with a Leaver up top and rebuild the story, properly this time.

A CU may sound sensible but remember it suits the EU much more than the UK, as our whopping goods deficit proves. It's not a real Brexit, we cannot do indy deals, rule taking only.

RefII has an air of a Remain win, that's why they want it! They could be right but then again what if they're wrong again? Is there any political will left to do what a Leave public wants or would it be the same story?

May remains the blockage but only when the fear of her exceeds the fear of Jezzer will they do the right thing... we're getting close.
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Netley Lucas
post Apr 11 2019, 04:16 AM
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End Oct is better than a year for sure, thanks Macron! laugh.gif

The task now is to get shot of May bloody fast before she inevitably forces Remain on us by stealth. Yes the talk will be (too conveniently) of No Deal being a reality but I don't trust anyone currently involved to have the guts to take us out on WTO terms, that needs leadership, we have none... yet.

The Remain Trick

Make sure a Remain Parliament has the final say

Make sure there's no majority for any deal

Make sure there's only 2 options left, No Deal or No Brexit

Make sure a No Deal Brexit cannot happen

The ONLY option remaining is... REMAIN!

This post has been edited by Netley Lucas: Apr 11 2019, 04:23 AM
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Netley Lucas
post Apr 11 2019, 05:55 AM
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Macron's really annoyed the Germans, they wanted the long one and he vetoed it. The pretense of unity has been well and truly shattered, just imagine if we had a Brexiteer in there instead of May! Macron helping us to Leave? I sense it wouldn't take much more to tip him over the edge. ohmy.gif
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tigerjames
post Apr 11 2019, 12:15 PM
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Shame, a real shame and shameless


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scoobyliscious
post Apr 11 2019, 01:49 PM
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No love for the Sudanese, finally figuring out how to rid themselves of Omar Al-Bashir, in a little Omexit? Bashirexit? Bashexit? On the heels of ousting Bouteflika in Algeria?

Sure, it's no Brexit, but it's definitely a celebration of the power of the people to define their own rule. Assuming, of course, that "what comes next" are elections, and not just more dictatorial army regimes (and we all know that's, at best, a 50/50 proposition)

Now, to find the little redacted for language and charge him for the longstanding atrocities of Darfur.

I have to admit: my list of power-hungry little redacted for language dictators I want gone from our collective conscious is growing shorter: 2017 Mugabe and now Al-Bashir. It's a good day for humanity. Long may it continue.

(Sorry - probably wasn't the best place to post this, but it is the only real political thread we have)


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BRFC
post Apr 11 2019, 02:28 PM
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QUOTE (scoobyliscious @ Apr 11 2019, 03:49 PM) *
No love for the Sudanese, finally figuring out how to rid themselves of Omar Al-Bashir, in a little Omexit? Bashirexit? Bashexit? On the heels of ousting Bouteflika in Algeria?

Sure, it's no Brexit, but it's definitely a celebration of the power of the people to define their own rule. Assuming, of course, that "what comes next" are elections, and not just more dictatorial army regimes (and we all know that's, at best, a 50/50 proposition)

Now, to find the little redacted for language and charge him for the longstanding atrocities of Darfur.

I have to admit: my list of power-hungry little redacted for language dictators I want gone from our collective conscious is growing shorter: 2017 Mugabe and now Al-Bashir. It's a good day for humanity. Long may it continue.

(Sorry - probably wasn't the best place to post this, but it is the only real political thread we have)

Well, if there's anything to put Brexit in the right perspective it's the atrocities committed by these power hungry despots. I'm all for it. And keeping my fingers crossed this won't end in tears and (another) civil war.
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scoobyliscious
post Apr 11 2019, 03:14 PM
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QUOTE (BRFC @ Apr 11 2019, 10:28 AM) *
Well, if there's anything to put Brexit in the right perspective it's the atrocities committed by these power hungry despots. I'm all for it. And keeping my fingers crossed this won't end in tears and (another) civil war.

It's a little too similar to the "Arab Spring" in which despots were overthrown (well, except for Syria), but the "what's next" varied by country, including some truly awful outcomes (see: Yemen, ongoing conflict or Egypt, current conflict in Libya, bin Salman's consolidation of power in Saudi Arabia and subsequent oppression under the guise of expanding rights e.g. for women) but some places seem to have done well, such as Tunisia or Jordan.

So, mixed bag.

But, at least it's out with the old Oppression and hail to our new Overlords (who are not yet robotic, but we all know that's going to happen soon, too wink.gif )


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Netley Lucas
post Apr 11 2019, 03:43 PM
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QUOTE (scoobyliscious @ Apr 11 2019, 02:49 PM) *
No love for the Sudanese, finally figuring out how to rid themselves of Omar Al-Bashir, in a little Omexit? Bashirexit? Bashexit? On the heels of ousting Bouteflika in Algeria?

Sure, it's no Brexit, but it's definitely a celebration of the power of the people to define their own rule. Assuming, of course, that "what comes next" are elections, and not just more dictatorial army regimes (and we all know that's, at best, a 50/50 proposition)

Now, to find the little redacted for language and charge him for the longstanding atrocities of Darfur.

I have to admit: my list of power-hungry little redacted for language dictators I want gone from our collective conscious is growing shorter: 2017 Mugabe and now Al-Bashir. It's a good day for humanity. Long may it continue.

(Sorry - probably wasn't the best place to post this, but it is the only real political thread we have)


It would appear inflation (bread trebling) was the final straw. Let's just hope this is not simply a like-for-like and that good governance can be established. There are many examples of People Power that have not benefited the people, some will argue Brexit is already one despite it not having happened... yet.
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Netley Lucas
post Apr 11 2019, 03:55 PM
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QUOTE (tigerjames @ Apr 11 2019, 01:15 PM) *
Shame, a real shame and shameless


If we are ever going to have a Brexit the Tories must get rid of May asap because she will drive us to Remain because she has not got the guts or the desire to have us leave on WTO terms. Only a leader who can put what Merkel least wants to the EU can get Brexit. Let's be clear, Merkel wants us to stay and would have let us have 5 years to make sure we stay, those German cars need to be bought by someone. laugh.gif
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Netley Lucas
post Apr 19 2019, 07:15 PM
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Extinction Rebellion are playing a blinder aren't they? Yes you can see many if not all are Remainers but that's rather tenuous isn't it? Remain perfectly peaceful and friendly, engage the police with banter and fun and they know they will not be treated robustly. They know the law well, they've had good advice, parents lawyers maybe?

Their aims appear somewhat ambitions, a cynic would say downright impossible thus lies but being someone who's never driven, never flown and is probably greener than 99% of ER I do have some sympathy with them. Can someone of the right of centre really be green? Of course they can! But ER's problem is they're overtly lefty demos simply alienates them to both centre and right of centre... they must engage properly and stop being silly.
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crazylegs
post Apr 19 2019, 08:32 PM
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QUOTE (Netley Lucas @ Apr 11 2019, 04:55 PM) *
If we are ever going to have a Brexit the Tories must get rid of May asap because she will drive us to Remain because she has not got the guts or the desire to have us leave on WTO terms. Only a leader who can put what Merkel least wants to the EU can get Brexit. Let's be clear, Merkel wants us to stay and would have let us have 5 years to make sure we stay, those German cars need to be bought by someone. laugh.gif

We needed to send Dennis and the auf wiedersehen boys over, there'd have sorted it laugh.gif


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WALOR
post Apr 20 2019, 03:00 AM
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QUOTE (scoobyliscious @ Apr 11 2019, 09:49 AM) *
I have to admit: my list of power-hungry little redacted for language dictators I want gone from our collective conscious is growing shorter: 2017 Mugabe and now Al-Bashir. It's a good day for humanity. Long may it continue.


When we get rid of Merkel, THEN men can breathe free once more


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Netley Lucas
post Jun 17 2019, 12:22 PM
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A welcome couple of months rest from this neverending saga comes to end with the seemingly inevitable elevation of Boris to Prime Minister. Many a slip twixt cup and lip but when even some of his opponents are queuing up to back him you sense they want a job, from him. The maths look obvious, he already has more than the 105 needed to get into the final two to face the membership and all polls suggest he has overwhelming support amongst members, landslide predicted.

So is Boris as daft and barmy as he portrays? You don't win two London mayoral elections in a staunch Labour capital by accident. Neither is he a natural Brexiteer, I'd see him more of a centrist, even a liberal moderniser if push came to shove. So why is he a Brexiteer? Well he said himself it was touch & go, so it may well have been more to do with ambition than ideology? The Remain market was too hostile for him to advance so he went for Leave... opportunity.

Can he be trusted to deliver Brexit and beat Corbyn? As always it's the Backstop that is preventing a clean break. The Irish & EU just love it, it suits them to have the UK and NI aligned and no matter how many times you tell them that they have all agreed that no hard border will ever be reintroduced they still pretend they haven't said it. If Boris can get the Backstop out of the WA and into Future Relations then that logically eases the blockage. This suggestion has been made before, it should never have been in the WA in the first place... some suggest Liddington suggested it to the Irish/EU as a way of retaining a CU.

Taking No Deal off the table is akin to Remaining, a red herring. It's like Labour arguing that No Deal is bad for the economy but championing a Socialist regime that is good for the economy? The kind of logic that would have had Harold Shipman as Minister for The Elderly.

I am still cautious about the likelihood of Brexit ever happening but at the very least there could soon be a Government that broadly believes in it as opposed to one that didn't want it. However I do expect an election this year as a mandate will be needed to go the hard yards. Farage is more than lurking, many seats are up for grabs, particularly in those Northern & Eastern Leave seats, as Labour lurches to... Remain.

This is a real battle for the soul & heart and the resurgence of the LibDems and Farage suggest the middle ground is not where it's at... neither is compromise.
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Netley Lucas
post Jun 18 2019, 08:37 PM
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The BBC's attempt to liven the Tory leadership contest up failed miserably. Whoever decided to have them all seated and have moving graphics behind them must have come straight from the excellent mockumentary W1A* because it was so bad as to be laughable. Rory Stewart must be irritating the heck out of Gove & Hunt, something of a dog in a manger and arguably the most New Labour Tory I've seen for some time. Boris's smirk gives it away, hardly any scrutiny bar the 'letterbox', home and dry, expect Raab's support to send him over the unstoppable very soon.

* https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03yv...ies-1-episode-1
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Netley Lucas
post Jun 19 2019, 04:30 PM
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The fallout from yesterday's 'debate' seems to have hit the BBC, Abdullah from Bristol and Aman from London more than any of the candidates. It was bad enough to watch but if the BBC are loading questions from people with dubious political axes to grind against the Tories then maybe they should lose the final debate and just let the moderator of Sky or C4 ask a series of questions and do it properly. These things can be done well if the format is solid but the BBC have shown they cannot be trusted.
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Netley Lucas
post Jun 19 2019, 10:50 PM
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On the subject of broadcasters, I am warming to Ian Dale on LBC. He has just had Hunt & Gove on, separately, gently probing in a nice non-threatening way. He still asks those awkward questions but gives time and space for replies and doesn't interrupt, which is a heck of blessing in these confrontational times.
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Netley Lucas
post Jun 20 2019, 08:15 PM
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And then there were two. After the lunchtime round it looked as if Gove might pip Hunt but by teatime I guess Boris lent Hunt a few votes to get rid of a trickier opponent. Now another month of hustings, sheesh, I'm something of a political junkie but this is getting too much when it's probably simply a case of does Boris get two thirds or three quarters of the members.

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